Reverse Position

1

Hi

I m 1 of your trader. my question is

In morning I buy 1 far OTM(lot size 75) call and 1 ITM (75 lot size) call both are buy position.
Now As market move I want to reverse my ITM position and want to sell it with 2 lot(150 qty) as i have 1 far otm to hedge additional qty but your system not allowed me to sell 150 qty.
I am doing this by webhook.

How can i do this please say way out to do this
Thanks

2

Probably because of the well known margining issue. It was causing issues repeatedly, so now on Dhan I only trade low frequency Fut with smaller Margin use

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3

Yes margin update delay leads to a failure of

  1. Reverse Tap Orders
  2. Basket Orders
  3. API orders
  4. TV Webhook orders
  5. Exit Selected Position orders

@PravinJ @Naman the current effective order execution speed at Dhan is in seconds and not mS. Please do something about this ASAP.

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4

Hi @t7support @VijayNair Do share the use-cases where it is triggered with @Naman and me. We measure performance of trading systems daily and our numbers published are aggregate performance of all orders.

@Renu_Kumar Do share your registered mobile number with @Dhan_Cares and will see the instance for which this happened.

5

I have shared several instances of same with @Naman over whatsapp

These issues happen everyday if we don’t give sufficient delay and not careful. Basically if we close a position that blocked margin and try to open a new position that blocks margin, the new order fails if there is not enough margin to hold both the first and second positions together.The margin released due to the closing of the first position is not updated in the system fast enough.

Last time an api order of @VijayNair failed even after 8s of closing the first position

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6

The margining issues have been ongoing and @Naman is aware. I have given up high frequency options trading (OS) on Dhan

7

It would be wonderful if Dhand could host an AMA session with successful trader from Dhan. I hope @VijayNair , @t7support, and others don’t mind answering questions from us.

8

@VijayNair, image of your high-frequency trading setup on chart?
Is it reversal trading strategy?

9

I am an algo trader, and when I say ‘high frequency’ what I mean is 15+ trades a day often involving squaring up a short options position and then reinstating it at a different strike - something that seems to irritate Dhan’s margining system sometimes.

10

If Dhan wants to grow, margin update delay must be addressed on a priority basis. This has been reported multiple times and for a very long time now. Whatever fix was done till now unfortunately didn’t yield any benefit on the delay side. Activity of active traders at Dhan will come down if this issue keeps its head up.

The costly zerodha on the top side and ultra low cost Finvasia down below has no such issues. There is something fundamental with Dhan system which is causing this issue. So any order placement feature built on top of it looks good on a banner but not so good out of the banner.

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11

Recently Dhan did a AMA session like that. In future also this could happen right @RahulDeshpande ?

13

@Deep_fall @t7support Yes, we will conduct regular online meetups for the community!

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14

Please remove your number.

15

@Renu_Kumar
this issue persist “ONLY” with Dhan bcoz they are asking for additional margin for reversal position with 2x Qty.

earlier with @t7support and I had raised many request regarding this issue but no update on this issue.
for reversal position you have only two option 1) do exit open position and take reversal trade (Single tap reversal will not work, you have place two separate orders) and 2) have additional margin required for your trade.

@PravinJ Sir, Hope this issue will be address. its indeed for reversal trade.

16

We discussed this @VijayNair @t7support - some changes are been made to ensure we optimised this further… @Naman would connect.

Just to make sure we communicate, i think the expectation is to un-release the margin instantly when trade happens - the instant can’t be instant. It will be always in some ms. We have to handle multiple cases like partial trades, compute margin obligations towards to existing positions, trade confirmation packets, front-end updates and multiple internal checks. We have to sequence orders via oms on the fly to ensure compliance with exchange norms. Margin release guidelines are must, the risks are unlimited for a broker and they exist across global trading systems.

The case of an API order where it took few seconds, was an one-off and rare instance where queue of orders was higher on instance at that time. It’s rare and can happen, however as mentioned we will make few more optimisations on core processing in few more weeks.

17

Thanks @PravinJ

mS is ok. But the problem that we face is that it is in seconds currently. Note that we have traded with other brokers and we never faced this kind of an issue.

Hoping that the optimisation planned will bring the delay in line with peers in the industry atleast.

18
  1. The delay is often more than a second.
  2. Does not happen on Z and Finvasia
  3. During hectic times delay can be 3+ seconds
  4. You seem to think this is okay. I would be okay too if it were Monopoly money, but it’s real money. Traders need to manage broker glitch risk after all.

In any case I have given time and money (oh yes) hoping things will iron out, but I am not confident of this situation resolving to satisfaction.

Already decided never to do options on Dhan, but will use the platform for conservative slow reacting Futures strategies (far fewer trades), since other stuff is okay.

19

We are looking at ways to optimise this as well, we learn from feedback and suggestions like this. These are good problems for us to solve form, and we are on this. @VijayNair @t7support

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