For buying ITM stock options (current month - last week of expiry) even 3/4 days prior to expiry that is friday, monday , tuesday & wednesday, even though we select intraday product , we are charged huge Margin from DHAN (checked almost many other brokers who don’t do such things with their consumers) 6/7 times more than the actual premium required to buy options !
i have read the circular of exchange & RMS policy of urs and others too, there is no specific mandate to impose such heavy margin even for intraday products. For delivery or carry forwarding ITM option i understand but why double standard RMS policy for intraday products. you people already have 2-4 days to force square off and the position is already intraday and hence will be auto squared off too if needed , then why such things for intraday products.
checked in fyers , checked in zerodha… checked in many others , all allow intraday trades with normal margin until wed 3:15 (or auto square off time) , yeah for delivery or carry forward products they charge more margin which is understandable.
Due to these things there are many problems arising to us…
request u to plz take a look on this issue and do necessary at the earliest.
@RahulDeshpande@Sameet@shraddha@PravinJ plz ye month end me aesi chiz face karne ko na mile ye hi request hai… other brokers are allowing 100% Margin (full premium) for intraday products & Dhan have (100% into 4x 5x 6x Margin requirements even for intraday products around the last week, yeahh restrict us on the last day but till then we should have been allowed properly just like all the standard brokers present in the industry !
you guys can check out for facts if i am saying anything wrong… Last month bhi yahi chize face ki thi & in other brokers people were enjoying the benefits.
so request u to do Correct/enable proper Margin for intraday products for stock options in the last week. of course implement your RMS policy structure on delivery margins & yeah last day of the expiry shouldn’t allow for intraday but else the above suggested & valuable suggestion/request should consider as soon as possible.
request all u guys to discuss Or participate in this thread so we can have a resolution for this thing which may affect us in the upcoming last week of the expiry and we may have a resolution for intraday things!
Hi @Varsha777, I don’t do options. So don’t have much idea of the issue you presented and thus wouldn’t like to comment on the same without proper knowledge. Thanks.
To my knowledge there is no extra leverage available for Intraday FnO relative to Overnight FnO - 1X (100% of NRML margins(SPAN + Exposure)). This is after the SEBI ruling which cut excessive leverage in Indian stock markets. So other brokers also charge extra physical delivery margin as required by the exchange as expiry date approaches be it Intraday or NRML. See the zerodha margin blocked below.
@t7support , may be u missed the whole post & details i mentioned above… i clearly mentioned about “intraday product” Stock options (ITM stock options) that too in the last week & last friday before expiry. all other brokers including Zerodha , fyers… They do not charge any kind of extra margin for the ITM stock options for their intraday products in the last week of expiry, they just need the Full premium (not talking about any leverage in F&O) , here in DHAN , in the last week of expiry (monthly) , we need to put extra 5x 6x 7x margin for our stock ITM options which we build in intraday prodcuts, for taking delivery i understand the whole concept and SEBI/exchange guidelines but for intraday there are no barriers till we pay full premium of the ITM stock options & yeah ofcourse, on the last day (that is on the expiry day), we shouldn’t be allowed for intraday orders for that month’s expiry that’s fine & understandable.
but what i don’t like or can’t understand is… why on few days prior to expiry even for intraday products (they gonna square off if we don’t - RMS already) why they don’t allow normal full premium for ITM stock options for their “intraday products” in the last friday, monday ,tuesday and wednesday )
i hope u got my concerning points. may be u are not dealing with it so couldn’t understand the problem. last month even though i was having good position. my whole bunch of capital was blocked due to ITM stock options buying (that too 5x , 6x extra margin block that is if i have bought any stock options for 25000 then , they block total 1,75,000 for options buying) & opportunity in the intraday in the last week is quite good as risk rewards are handsome and healthy at that time but sadly Dhan don’t bother to see this thread @PravinJ@RahulDeshpande@shraddha , @t7support hope i could make u understand the whole problem !
Hi @Varsha777 Will review this. Can you email some of the margins for trades you were trying to place to us on feedback@dhan.co, will have this reviewed.
I did read u r full post. I was saying that same margin amount will be charged irrespective of whether intraday or normal position is taken for stock fno.
If you see the zerodha screenshot I posted above they also increase the margin blocked from friday onwards near expiry.
I checked Dhan RMS policy and I found this. So on expiry day they do block 2x more than zerodha. Other days am not sure as the RMS policy doesn’t state anything explicit on this matter. Need to check near expiry day. @PravinJ any insights ?
Zerodha & fyers increase Margin on delivery product (longterm OR CNC) , not on intraday product, have personally checked in fyers in the past month , when DHAN was blocking my 5x to 6x Margin for option Buying (over and above full premium paid )
have already checked difference between fyers intraday product and delivery product. when we select intraday product for any ITM stock options, they allow us to buy with Normal full Margin paid & if we select delivery, they charge more 5x 6x margin for buying.
notice the difference in the last week… currently u can’t check the difference , u will only realise in the last week or upcoming friday, Monday , tuesday , Wednesday !
@PravinJ just now see the difference on other platforms like “fyers” vs “Dhan” for ITM stock options Margin for Intraday products… take any ITM stock options & try to place order for intraday products in DHAN & Check on other platforms like fyers. huge huge difference !
@PravinJ@RahulDeshpande@Naman see the difference in number of 5x 6x Margin (specially in screenshot 2 and 4)… yahi time hota hai jab retailers a6i risk reward k sath kaam kar sakte hai for ITM stock options & as it’s intraday product it will be exited before your intraday square off time or at your intraday square off time. if customer wants to carry forward for delivery he will need to pay delivery Margin , No doubt in that ! but for intraday products u should allow Full premium only !
We completely understand your point. At Dhan, policies are made with the objective to provide comprehensive trading opportunity to our users. At the same time we try to balance for the Risk Profile of users & comply with all the necessary regulations. Keeping same in mind we have created our current Risk Management Policy.
The point in discussion here is about Margin Requirement for Stock Options in Intraday product type in last week of Expiry. This is what the Dhan RMS policy asks
Dhan
Exchange Margin
Dhan Margin
Allow for trading
Expiry Day-4 day (Friday)
10% of VAR+ELM
10% of VAR+ELM
YES
Expiry Day-3 day (Monday)
25% of VAR+ELM
25% of VAR+ELM
YES
Expiry Day-2 day (Tuesday)
45% of VAR+ELM
45% of VAR+ELM
YES
Expiry Day-1 day (Wednesday)
75% of VAR+ELM
75% of VAR+ELM
YES
Expiry Day (Thursday)
100% of VAR+ELM
100% of Contract Value
NO
Point to note here is that, we allow positions to carry till Thursday & create fresh position till Wednesday. That is not the case with most of the other brokers and hence you will see the margin requirement for Intraday products are less there. As you can see, our margin requirement from users is almost same as what exchange ask us. At Dhan, from Expiry Day-4 (Friday), the margin requirement for both Intraday & Normal product type is same.
For reference, below is the margin requirement for stock options in last week of expiry for most of the other broker.
Other Brokers
Normal Margin
Intraday Margin
Allow for trading
Expiry Day-4 day (Friday)
10% of VAR+ELM
Premium Value
YES
Expiry Day-3 day (Monday)
25% of VAR+ELM
Premium Value
YES
Expiry Day-2 day (Tuesday)
45% of VAR+ELM
Premium Value
YES
Expiry Day-1 day (Wednesday)
25% of Contract
-
NO
Expiry Day (Thursday)
50% of Contract
-
NO
As you can see, no fresh trade is allowed from Wednesday onwards, hence the RMS at other broker system can manage with lower margin requirements.
Stock Options is a risky business to trade. We would encourage only those users who have good risk appetite to trade in the last week of expiry in stock options, but if you can manage the risk well, we are allowing to carry your position till last day of expiry. In fact, with this policy we have room to allow intraday trades on last day also, we haven’t done that now.
yes that’s the case. i would still say then , offer us what other brokers are already offering & if they can , why u guys can’t… offer us the same! My request is for Intraday products only ! i completely understand & agree with Carry forward Margins requirement!
Hi @Varsha777 Trading is risky business, not just for Traders but also for Stock Brokers too. Certain players in market may be comfortable with few things, and certain may be not. There are penalties associated with margins and risks for Brokers. Unfortunately, there will always be a trade-off in few things.
As always, we continue to evaluate this and make changes to enhance. Additionally, changes if any room for incorporating same, we will do as we have always done.
have you observed other brokers & industry standards for intraday products of ITM stock options buying in the last week of expiry (exclude last day of the expiry - don’t want on last day). have you compared the margin requirements with Dhan ???
so do u feel Dhan is asking too much margin even for intraday products ITM stock option buying (here i don’t talk about delivery products) for the last week’s expiry (not talking about last day of the expiry) ??
it’s okie to charge higher or more Margin for Delivery products/order type for the last week of the expiry but really not at all okie doing the same for intraday products for all the last 4 days before expiry.
Don’t allow intraday products on the last day of expiry that is okie & understood but 6x to 7x to 10x margin for ITM option buying with intraday product type is totally unfair. just checkout zerodha & fyers too for the same matter & you guyz realise what’s the Main problem in RMS policy in terms of intraday products Vs delivery products.
